Now that I am home and back in my right mind, I wanted to point fans of #dnd and
@downwithdnd
to the new
@misdirectedmark
forums, where you can chat with
@Thelight101
and me about the game and what we talk about on the show. Interesting topic at the moment: does #dnd as a game need ability scores from 3-18+, or can we move on to just use modifiers, if you cut nostalgia from the equation? https://t.co/cgbYcjKtwT— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
I think brand new players should only see the modifiers. I see too many instances where you say something like "what's your dexterity" and they go +15 and… that's not their fault.
Is it still D&D without ANY numbers? "This is the clonky way it works" is part of the brand IMO.
— Six Hit Points (@sixhitpoints) September 12, 2019
If we rolled for ability scores, did the subtract 10, divide in half calculation to get the modifier, wrote the modifier down, and then tossed out the ability score entirely, I would be very happy.
The nice bell curve of 4d6 drop low is the only good part of ability scores IMO. It removes some granularity with respect to ability score increases, though. You can no longer get an ASI of 1.
— M.T. Black (@MTBlack2567) September 12, 2019
Personally, that doesn't bother me. I like that small level of granularity, but I would gladly sacrifice it for the increased simplicity.
— James Haeck 💍 Betrothed Beholder (@jamesjhaeck) September 12, 2019
There are some minor uses in fifth (primarily with multiclassing and with some feat stuff), but the only times in the non-optional rules it really comes up are when ability scores increase, and with how heavier armors affect you. Indeed. Most of the uses of the ability score could easily be switched over to reference the modifier instead.
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
Yeah, no need for #dnd ability scores. I got first-hand experience on this from my daughter last week as we worked on her first character. She was confused about why the ability scores were on the sheet AT ALL if the main things that mattered on the rolls were the modifiers. Your daughter is wise beyond her years! 🙂
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
An argument in favor of a return to rolling for ability scores than for proclaiming ability scores dead. I understand the need to rely on fixed or point buy for organized play, but doing so throws away so much opportunity for diversity in character concepts. You can still have diversity in character concepts without ability scores. You can randomize your abilities without the clunky translation of obsolete ability scores into the modifiers that the game actually uses. You could still do arrays or point buys as well.
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
The rolled stats versus point buy/array stats is a different discussion than the one I'm looking at.
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
I Suppose only the bonus is what matters but without the flavor of ability score it starts getting into the realm of DnD that I don’t care for I am not grokking this. Other than nostalgia, what's the difference between saying "My strength is 18" and "My strength is +4?" For players we are trying to teach the game, which is easier to understand?
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
A point-buy system could still work very easily with only modifiers… Each mod starts at 0 and the player has 6 points; to increase a mod costs a number of points equal to the desired value at each step, i.e. 1=>1 2=>1+2, to a max of 2; a mod may be set to -1 to gain 1 point; if a player has 1 point left they may save it for a future MSI; at any level where a player would normally receive 2 ability points, they instead receive two mod points, where 2 points => +1, and points may be accumulated for future use; the point accumulation addresses odd ability scores
I mean…I’m pretty sure this is part of what balances certain racial/feat bonuses. Many elements of the current system are built around this, so unless we are taking about 6e, I think half-steps are integral to the balance of this edition of the game. Also, with systems like D&D Beyond (which is pretty dang affordable), I think a lot of the learning curve is extremely manageable, even for completely un-initiated rp/table top dumb dumbs like me.
The scores are still relevant. When two players tie for initiative, there’s no better way to solve it than just figuring out who has a higher dexterity.
They aren’t obsolete, one they’re the stepping stone and the base for many different things. And as others they have many other uses than just modifiers, str deals with carry weight pull push drag etc, constitution for holding breath among other things, let’s not forget shadows which can drain your str score or spells and abilities like that of intellect devourers that look at your score for stuff, and multiclassing, among many other things, I personally prefer having the scores in.
Every game needs a base. Just like a construction project needs a foundation. The ability scores are the base for all other things (modifiers). Besides, you can’t roll a negative modifier on a die. Yes they are pretty pointless numbers in the game itself, but they are the trunk of the tree which everything else on the character sheet branches off of.
You can’t remove them without extensive changes to some game mechanics.
Every monster that deals ability score damage like Shadows or Intellect Devourers will need to have their entire abilities change.
The same for spells who affect ability scores.
Also, perhaps the question shouldn’t be if they need to be removed, but rather should they be used in more ways?
For example, if your ability score is greater than the DC, you automatically succeed (for example in strength checks to lift a gate or perception checks, instead of passive perception).
Stat damage. Smoothed allocation. I mean if you are that fired up to get rid of dice rolling, you really don’t need books at all. Just go play make believe together. Accepting the partial understanding of concepts as wisdom is this decade’s chief failing.