Now that I am home and back in my right mind, I wanted to point fans of #dnd and
@downwithdnd
to the new
@misdirectedmark
forums, where you can chat with
@Thelight101
and me about the game and what we talk about on the show. Interesting topic at the moment: does #dnd as a game need ability scores from 3-18+, or can we move on to just use modifiers, if you cut nostalgia from the equation? https://t.co/cgbYcjKtwT— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
I think brand new players should only see the modifiers. I see too many instances where you say something like "what's your dexterity" and they go +15 and… that's not their fault.
Is it still D&D without ANY numbers? "This is the clonky way it works" is part of the brand IMO.
— Six Hit Points (@sixhitpoints) September 12, 2019
If we rolled for ability scores, did the subtract 10, divide in half calculation to get the modifier, wrote the modifier down, and then tossed out the ability score entirely, I would be very happy.
The nice bell curve of 4d6 drop low is the only good part of ability scores IMO. It removes some granularity with respect to ability score increases, though. You can no longer get an ASI of 1.
— M.T. Black (@MTBlack2567) September 12, 2019
Personally, that doesn't bother me. I like that small level of granularity, but I would gladly sacrifice it for the increased simplicity.
— James Haeck 💍 Betrothed Beholder (@jamesjhaeck) September 12, 2019
There are some minor uses in fifth (primarily with multiclassing and with some feat stuff), but the only times in the non-optional rules it really comes up are when ability scores increase, and with how heavier armors affect you. Indeed. Most of the uses of the ability score could easily be switched over to reference the modifier instead.
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
Yeah, no need for #dnd ability scores. I got first-hand experience on this from my daughter last week as we worked on her first character. She was confused about why the ability scores were on the sheet AT ALL if the main things that mattered on the rolls were the modifiers. Your daughter is wise beyond her years! 🙂
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
An argument in favor of a return to rolling for ability scores than for proclaiming ability scores dead. I understand the need to rely on fixed or point buy for organized play, but doing so throws away so much opportunity for diversity in character concepts. You can still have diversity in character concepts without ability scores. You can randomize your abilities without the clunky translation of obsolete ability scores into the modifiers that the game actually uses. You could still do arrays or point buys as well.
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
The rolled stats versus point buy/array stats is a different discussion than the one I'm looking at.
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
I Suppose only the bonus is what matters but without the flavor of ability score it starts getting into the realm of DnD that I don’t care for I am not grokking this. Other than nostalgia, what's the difference between saying "My strength is 18" and "My strength is +4?" For players we are trying to teach the game, which is easier to understand?
— Shawn Merwin, floating on the River Styx (@shawnmerwin) September 12, 2019
I agree that it does not consider the half steps. In the same/similar amount of time, the ability score system would allow a person with 2 odd ability scores to increase in that time whereas with Mod point system could only increase one.
The ability score could easily be removed by changing mechanic, but it is more advantageous to the player to use the ability score system.
Also no one wants to play with decimals.
I’ve always explained it to new players like this: ability scores are your raw ability in that score. The modifier is your practical use of that ability, however.
Theres not a whole lot of practical difference between being able to deadlift 100lbs and 125lbs (str 10 and str 11, so to speak), but there is a recognizable difference between 100lbs and 150lbs (str 10 and str 12). The modifier is how that ability affects what you can do in everyday life. At a str of 10 (+0), you may not be able to open a pickle jar. Same for str 11(still +0). However, youd be much more likely to get it with an str of 12 (+1), but with an str of 20 (+5), you’re likely to crush the jar single handed.
As I said above, the ability score is your raw (strength, dexterity, etc.). Your ability score modifier is how much that affects your daily life.
I mean, all those arguments are okay for the base game, but what about feats? I mean, not all of them, but there are those occasional half-feats that give a +1 to an ability score and some other small benefit. I like those for character customization and stuff. I guess you could rework them to swap the half-ASIs out for something else?
Read. The. Book.
Stop pandering to players who are too darn lazy to learn the game.
This is an odd one. It’s one of those things you grew up doing, never minded, and used to grow your characters, 17 strength? now you find a way to increase that stat.
removing stats from the game in lieu of modifiers would be streamlining a very aerodynamic game. I for one enjoy rolling for stats and being happy that my 17 strength fighter is stronger than the 16 strength cleric.
besides if we start doing this….when does it end. Should we remove weapon selections down to the basics? longsword, axe, club, bow, crossbow. Should we fight for smaller spellbooks, and get rid of all the spells that don’t deal the most damage? why dont we change weapons to deal flat damage, and get rid of damage rolls so that if you roll to hit it just deals damage at that point. wait…..no I got it.
“Lets get rid of all the races so everyone can be humans and be identical” It’ll be super streamlined and easy then, no roleplaying, no unique thoughts.
Its a slippery slope when you change things you think will maje something better, until you cant stop changing things. Then you sit, upon a throne of regret of your own doing.
The only reason to need the ability scores in my opinion is calculating carry weight and if people toll the same initiative.
The problem with changing from scores to a modifier is that it would remove design space that isn’t even being used yet. Ex. An item of say, +1 Str is a lot harder to decide who to give it to if the fighter has 18 str, but theres a ranger with 13.
Also, basically half the feats in the game+UA’s would have to be rebalanced, since they give +1 to a single ability score.