hello and welcome to another episode of
the dragon plus livestream I am your
host as always are usually Bart Carroll
and with me returning as our guest this
week Jeremy Crawford hi everyone
Jeremy for folks that might not be aware
of him lead rules designer of Dungeons &
Dragons lead designer of the players
handbook and the games managing editor
so many titles so many titles well
welcome back we started the conversation
two weeks ago regarding more of the
design process we did not nearly get
through even our first topic which was
the order domain for cleric so we wanted
to loop back around talk further about
the order domain we had a lot of
questions from chat which we appreciate
very much we went back through the chat
logs compiled a few of those and will
actually address some of your questions
that we did the last time which which
doesn’t mean you can’t ask new questions
yes and please do as always just give us
a capital question in the chat that’ll
help call it out to us as it Scrolls by
and then it’ll catch our eye and then
we’ll mangle your your handle name and
try and try and get to your question
before we begin
yes very exciting news we announced the
stream of many eyes yes so we can
finally stop tiptoeing around that on
our live streams without accidentally
feeling the next live stream event will
be June 1st through 3rd in Los Angeles
you can find out more information dandy
wizards calm slash som e for stream of
many eyes i’m looking forward to it will
you be there I will be there excellent
very nice yes there are tickets
available for the last day for Sunday
we’re making the for live stream games
available as a ticketed event which also
includes a tour of this studio and a bag
of merch and lots of cool stuff so it’ll
be a lot of fun yeah yeah we still have
to tiptoe around what we’re going to
announce at the stream of many are yes
as we did last year for stream of
annihilation that was
our campaign setting kickoff as it will
be again this year as well so all right
yes so I’m a little punchy we were up
late doing fine-tuning on the
announcements and a furling getting it
out the door but excited too excited to
be here today before we begin the other
thing that I’ll just I don’t even know
why just because it was top of the mind
was is the coast generously brought the
employees to see a screening of the
Avengers on Friday yes so I was that was
a very important two hour and 45 minute
meeting we all attended it yes there was
so yes without without screaming
spoilers or anything did you and did you
enjoy the movie I did there I read the
original Infinity Gauntlet series years
ago I’m also a big Doctor Strange fan
yes so there were many moments that were
a huge fun in that movie I yes I think I
speak for a lot of us when there was
this isn’t a big spoiler but the the
witty banter with Doctor Strange and
calling him a wizard was landed well in
the Wizards of the coast yes yes because
yes this is my only claim to that
Avengers fame is last year I took my
vacation abroad and I was in the UK and
I was in Edinburgh or Edinburgh when
they were filming those things there
yeah I had no idea what was going on but
all the streets were blocked and there
was this massive smoke coming down where
they had set off pyrotechnics I’m like
oh my god there’s a bit an attack I
don’t know filming it was just the
Avengers it’s just you were attacking
they were but yeah it was it was super
cool when we were speaking beforehand
from traveling this year I was I was in
different parts abroad realizing how
convenient it is in the Forgotten Realms
that common is spoken pretty universally
throughout why don’t we have this on
earth yes one common language and then
there’s also no currency conversions for
your gold coins to running on whether
you’re going to Schultz or wherever else
but how risky that is walking around
with
actual gold yeah I guess that’s how they
used to you have to have have done that
back in the day right now
the cut purse comes from the actual yeah
you can’t you can’t call someone up and
cancel your gold coins but yeah I’ve
been hacked
you ready right yeah someone’s minting
my coins with with with my look at any
case so I I’m imagining a great
percentage of our audience has already
seen the Avengers if not already then at
least multiple times already so we’ll
wait to spoil it in our next talk yes
let’s do that you have lots of theories
and lots of opinions Gregg Tito and I
are also planning a long-form discussion
about our opinions on the recent Star
Wars movies oh boy I I’ve overheard
those before the fireworks everyone if
you watch this actually probably not
allowed to talk to to Star Wars or
Marvel too much considering our parent
company oh yeah yeah true so moving
along let’s go into the let’s go into
some of the questions from last time and
again if you do have questions for
Jeremy so so actually before I jump into
some of the past questions let’s let’s
set it up a little bit part of the
reasons we wanted to have you on was
specifically following Mike Murillo’s
happy fun our Mike does some of the
initial design work obviously for the
brand there’s other designers you’re one
of the designers for for the brand as
well but we wanted to also kind of talk
through a bit more of what that process
is not just putting the pen to paper but
then where does it go from there yeah
and since since you and I’ve discovered
we have fun talking about this as long
as those of you out there want to hear
us talk about this we are likely to keep
coming back to this design process to
talk about the development of rules
later in the process but we’ll even loop
back around to talk about some of the
initial design it’s something that Mike
delves into in his happy fun hour but as
Bart mentioned
there are actually a number of people
who do initial design for the game and I
can offer some insight on how some of us
have design practices similar to what
you’re seeing in the happy fun hour and
some of us approach the work in other
ways depending on the type of project
we’re working on no I think it’s well
granted I’m jaded because I like having
these discussions that I think they’re
valuable but part of the reasons I do
think that valuable is just for the
education of the designers that are
watching yes I mean we have the dm’s
guild if you’re interested in design
work
well I’m God I wish I had this when when
I was before I was working at Wizards of
the coast but to be able to put your
design work up for sale I mean damn
skilled is fantastic so we wanted to
kind of help I suppose open the books a
little bit on what that design process
is like internally not just to help
showcase what it is we’re doing but to
to help inform other designers that are
interested in the Hobby absolutely and
not only 4dm skilled but also if you try
to eventually work for us or another
game company but also these talks and
our minds are about Empire empowering
you as Dungeon Master’s because we know
many of you like to come up with house
rules you’d like to on the spot make
special rulings the more that we can
help you have confidence about how the
rules are designed why they’re designed
the way they’re designed the more I
think you’ll feel confident to reshape
the game the way you see fit for your
game which is ultimately our goal
because as I’ve often said D&D belongs
to all of us who play an indie emmett
it’s wonderful that it can mutate at
every table to match the taste of a
particular group and so we want you to
be able to engage in that mutation with
confidence it’s a it’s a challenging
skill I’m the design side of things as
the dungeon master but also I just cost
am i presenting it to your table
you have to morph it depending on who
your players are what what their
preferred playing style is this is a
challenging role to be a dungeon master
so my hats off to everyone that does it
and so yeah again to kind of go back to
our goal of giving you more as many
tools as possible to enjoy the Hobby
that we all we always very much loved
now hit me with some questions all right
yes I will
move on let’s talk these were questions
that folks had asked last time in chat
we didn’t quite get around to them so we
wanted to call a few of them out Kyber
crystal asks had asked what’s it like
deciding what types of creatures get
focused on in each book we’ve got
morning canons Toma foes coming out
shortly now and so so what was it like
deciding the types of creatures so it’s
always fun when we’re coming up with the
monsters that are gonna go into not only
any of our monster books but also
monsters that will get focused on in a
particular adventure because it’s a
chance for us to look at the game’s
history and see what are some of the
critters in the past we’ve loved and we
want to you know see them featured once
again maybe they haven’t gotten the
spotlight in a while and so there is
some nostalgia in play because many of
us working on the game have been playing
D&D and working on D&D for many many
years and so like we have all you know
we have lots of us have old buddies we
want to see come back I’m laughing oh go
crazy we know there’s a lot of fluff
talk in the chat yeah well the flump the
flump is actually a great example of
love for old things in D&D inspiring
some of our work because when we were
working on the players handbook I’m
sorry the monster manual and drafting
the monsters you know almost like
putting together a sports team right
that would make it into that book there
were a number of us who were like come
on the flumph
the flumph has got to come back because
partly because we we thought it was cute
and funny yeah but also it served a
world-building purpose for us and that
is another important part of our
decision-making process for any of our
books and that is world
and so what we wanted to do is show
through the flumph that in the realm of
tentacley aberrant kind of creatures you
can have something that’s good and you
know psionic power in the D&D multiverse
is so often associated with creatures
like mind flayers
and others that dominate that are forces
of cosmic evil and so we wanted to show
with the flump there is there’s a
balance in the cosmos so whenever
possible we if to rein in our desire to
go on a total nostalgic kick we we wet
it to world building that we’re doing
and and when I say world meaning world
building I mean big picture world
building I’m talking about the entire
D&D multiverse
so not only stories we want to tell
about the Forgotten Realms but stories
we want to tell about the outer Plains
and stories we want to tell about other
worlds in the Material Plane so yeah I
mean really quickly I know that flumph
can be a goofy creature but to that
point and kind of going back to the
different player types and player
experiences there’s often that moment of
levity that’s needed at the table and to
have a benign creature like that and we
had it in a hobo crazies game her live
stream game there was a fourth character
that came out and so they’re not always
ridiculous that’s just because they’re
there their lights and there’s a levity
there they don’t have to be silly or you
know and and that actually gets to
another piece not only when we’re
deciding on what monsters to include in
our game but even when we’re crafting
things like subclasses
spells we’re also looking for a range of
storytelling tones we want things that
would fit in a horror game we want
things that would fit in a high epic
fantasy campaign we want things that
will fit in a gritty campaign we want
things that will fit in a more childlike
playful campaign and so that’s why
you’ll see that our monster is again
even in the monster manual represent a
range of storytelling tones so that’s
why it was important to us to include
some things there whimsical
it’s one of the reasons why the flumph
is there that’s one of the reasons why
the mode wrong are there it’s also we
wanted to make sure to have a range of
good creatures such my unicorns are
there that’s why Pixies are there and
sprites and others that could end up
being your allies they could also end up
being your foes it depends on the story
the DM is telling right but we really
wanted to show the DM d and we do this
over and over again isn’t just one type
of fantasy there can be many types of
fantasy and that includes the whimsical
it doesn’t all have to be you know go
super serious no super serious is fine I
mean my my current home game is a gothic
horror campaign that is serious and
often disgusting although it also has
moments of levity just so that I don’t
overwhelm my players with horror well
sure let’s go back to the Avengers I
mean you need that in just storytelling
it feels like it helps to break up the
mood the tension the pacing just to have
those those moments throughout yeah
let’s ask you were you were mentioning
different different types of fantasy
then this is where I start screwing up
handles swablu burb asks when are we
getting more information on the fanfare
while so we’ve been sprinkling
information about the Fae and the Fae
wild in as many books as we can partly
because the Fae wild is such an
important element of the D&D multiverse
not only as a part of sort of the
cosmoses
mythic construction but it’s also
important for the tonal variety I was
talking about people often want to have
these magical fairy tale-like creatures
and certain types of adventures and so
we’ve made sure we provide a pretty
steady stream of those creatures and
each time we do that you get an
additional glimpse of some aspect of the
Fae wild we did it in the Monster Manual
we did it in Volos guide we do it again
in Morden Kane and stoma foes right well
I think we had mentioned last time the
Aladdin do make it
parents and morning cannons in various
ways yes and in addition to the
elaborate appearing I’m not sure I
mentioned the last time you and I were
chatting that in the elf chapter of
Morton Kane and stoma foes
there is discussion in various places
about the role the Fay Wilde has played
in the history of all elves not just the
Elad room and we wrote that history
partly so we could also make it clear
what the relationship of the Red Lantern
is to their elven cannon and I will
throw out a proposed just to the Fay
Weldon movies if you have not yet seen
annihilation which I have I would also
recommend that if you’re looking for
some sort of fate wild flavor and also
love crafting it yes a weird love cry
yeah it is but for any of you going to
see annihilation I will warn you it is
more of a horror film than I expected
but but in sort of like the original
alien film this cosmic horror right
right yeah so anyway for folks is tuning
in we’re talking to Jeremy Crawford we
will be going back staring into the
order domain continuing that discussion
but we wanted to make sure that we gave
due attention to the questions that you
kindly asked last time so let’s ask a
few more share DVI asks our prestige
classes from unearthed Arcana discarded
completely or do you think there might
be a place for them
so we’ve explored different approaches
to prestige classes not only since the
release of fifth edition but even before
the release of The Player’s Handbook
it’s something that the team and I
looked at we’ve tinkered with it and
honestly any time we have explored the
possibility of doing more work on
prestige classes fan feedback has really
been kind of a meh
we have not seen much interest from the
community in large enough numbers to
justify pushing forward with prestige
classes so that’s that’s one part of the
answer the other part of the answer is
prestige classes in our design framework
for fifth
addition don’t have as ready of a slot
as they did in third edition when they
first appeared and the reason why I say
that is because of the centrality of
subclass in fifth addition a lot of the
that sort of distinctive tweaking that
you could do to your character with a
prestige class in third addition we now
accomplish in fifth edition with
subclass and it’s a decision you get to
make very early in your career now we do
know and recognize that there are times
where people want to make a significant
character change later on but what we’ve
discovered is that most people are able
to accomplish that with multi classing
and and and also with judicious feet
selection if a particular group uses
feats so thus far the message that we’ve
gotten from the community is that there
are enough sort of baseline tools to
create the different character concepts
that people want to create and that
people really see subclass as the main
way to take a class that you have and
spin it in a new direction so that like
you could play you know a wizard for
instance over and over again and each
wizard you make could be very different
from each other wizard because of your
subclass choice your spell choice etc
same with a class like the fighter you
could each time pick a different
subclass and your experience as a
fighter is going to often be
dramatically different from the last
time you played the class so we did have
a question on subclasses mechs ximena’s
not even close but what I got do you
ever work on subclass options that are
strongly tied to non Forgotten Realms
content like the aphasia and Defiler or
ever ever on a dragon marked yes
so our subclass design and this goes all
the way back to the Player’s Handbook
has always been informed by essentially
the whole D&D multiverse here’s a great
example of this and I think some of you
have probably heard me talk about this
before when we were first coming up with
the subclass approach for the game
the one of the classes that was pivotal
in us going in that direction was
actually the wizard and it was because
we were looking at different D&D worlds
and we got to dragon lands and thought
how could we have a single class that
once we get to Dragonlance assuming we
go there someday that how could we
express the different towers of high
sorcery and but all be in the same class
and we’d explored sub class like things
in fourth edition again prestige classes
in third are kind of another nod in this
direction earlier editions of the game
have touched on sub class through things
like kids so this is certainly not a new
an entirely new thing for D and E but
for us you know we ended up making it
one of the foundations of fifth edition
class design and that’s all a long way
of saying part of that was sparked by
actually talking about dragon lands and
often when we’re talking about
particular subclasses some of them are
inspired by things in ever on some of
them are inspired by things in Fr some
of them are inspired by things in
Grayhawk because really when we do that
core class design it is for the whole
D&D multiverse and we kind of touched
upon that last time we spoke with the
various gods even that we’re mentioned
in the order of domain exactly to expand
the sort of the examples that were being
used to show how more broadly applicable
it seems like they can be know yeah all
right so let me ask one more and then
let’s take a look at the order go
obtuse Anglos asks we Mike was
discussing I believe psionics and in the
last hour yes I caught the tail end of
it do you think side points are
essential to the design of the mystic or
could it be built with robust class
features ah so this is this is a
question I answered on Twitter a while
ago and there is no essential link in
terms of game design between Sai points
and creating either a psionic class or a
psionic subclass or a psionic monster
psionics really like divine magic and
arcane magic is much more of a
storytelling category that has a variety
of effects associated with it because of
folklore comic books films etc so
honestly we could implement psyonix in a
bunch of different ways we could do it
with psionic abilities that function
similarly to spells we could do it with
robust class features like you see in a
number of our magic using classes like
for instance you could imagine a psionic
class or subclass that has things
equivalent to the warlocks eldritch
invocations so implementation really the
sky’s the limit and for us it’s often
about what feels best for the story
we’re trying to tell and then in the
case of the mystic that we released last
year there we were also exploring being
a little more traditional because since
in the past the game has often
associated psyonix with with side points
in some form we thought well we’ll give
it a go and see what people think I
tried so hard
as a young D&D player in first edition
trying to parse these rules mm-hmm I
think of the flares handbook it’s like I
want to be able to use this I just have
no idea what’s going on yeah yeah and as
I think I have said publicly before we
discussed for quite some time the
possibility of having several psionic
subclasses in the players handbook we
explored it as a possibility especially
for the sorcerer we explored it as a
possibility for the warlock we explored
it as a possibility for the wizard and
there are other classes as well that
we’ve also discussed both before and
after releasing the mystic through on
earth Arcana so you can imagine a world
where you know there is a
a mystic or Sion class and but then also
sub classes that are psionic themed in
other classes you could have no
dedicated class at all and only have
subclasses there are there are many many
ways for us to approach the design which
is really a part of the exciting part of
our work is we get to we get to play we
get to experiment and drill down with
the community down to okay where is
where’s the gem in this pile of boulders
I’m imagining we’re in this storytelling
and game design query digging for the
treasure
we’ve I think we’ve had that answered in
the infinity war we’re looking for we’re
looking for the Infinity stones so yes
speaking of no class at all sums me up
so why don’t we go ahead and move on to
the order domain I hope we do it
addressed it at least a few of your
questions thank you so much for asking
questions it gives us great stuff to
talk about and it lets us know what’s on
your mind
so please do continue to put them in
chat if we don’t address them this week
we do go back through every chat and
pull pull out our questions so let’s
look at the order domain this was a
recent happy fun hour a material that
made its way into a North Arcana we
spoke two weeks ago and I believe we got
as far as the bonus proficiency yes so
we we are still in first level folks
down the first column of but hey our
pace our pace is on track with a D&D
campaign goes because we expect first
level to take one or two sessions so
here we are on Session two about to
leave first level so if we could throw
up the order domain the original page
one is that what we’re looking at here
yes so we’ve gotten as far as hey look
we just have both of them up there oh
yes sorry
that’s the the original and the
unearthed fabulous Thank You Pelham so
one of the things I mentioned last time
is anyone who looked carefully at the
original draft
and then the version that appeared on
under Turkana about 75% of it if not
more is actually different the basic
structure is the same but the app but
the content itself it’s almost all new
design this is not unusual for us we we
revise often ruthlessly sometimes things
will make it from first graph form
pretty far into the process but what
you’re seeing here where the first draft
basically gets savaged and turned into a
new draft which by the way will probably
get savaged again once we get playtests
feedback as we make our way toward a
possible final version no no design
survives contact with the player group
yes yes yeah yeah because if your if
your focus is on making something that
is as fun for as many people as possible
that means letting go sometimes of your
initial conception as a designer for
what you wanted that thing to be and you
do want to of course hang on to the
story you’re trying to tell
but the story the overall identity the
archetype to me is what’s important not
the specific implementation until you
until through iteration you find the
implementation that makes the most
people happy all right let’s talk about
voice of authority
this ability made it mostly intact from
the original into unearth Arcana
but there were some important technical
differences for those of you who might
not be able to see the text full text
for the old one on your screen
really what this ability says is that
you can cast if when you cast a spell on
an ally and you use a spell slot of
first level or higher when you cast that
spell your ally can use a reaction to
make a weapon attack against a target of
your choice and die that was sorry that
was the original that was the original
okay
okay so there are actually some
important technical differences between
the version that was originally drafted
and the version in on Arthur Connor I
was gonna it so when you see that
original version what’s what’s spring
into your mind and like what what did
you see that called out to you that
needed to be changed and why okay so
first off there’s a little bit of
redundancy in the original you’ll notice
it says and that Ally can use a reaction
to make a single melee or ranged weapon
attack okay all weapon attacks are
either melee or ranged so if and and so
I cut the words melee arranged because I
never like rules to offer alternatives
in this way because then this suggests
there are maybe other alternatives like
Oh are there weapon attacks that aren’t
mainly arranged and so you whenever
you’re writing rules or homebrewing you
want to try to make it so that your
rules do not pose questions that they
can’t answer or that really are
unhelpful questions basically asking
about their making your reader wonder
things that aren’t about things that
aren’t even in the game
and so it’s sufficient here to just
simply say make a weapon it right so
inadvertently by over-explaining a rule
your inadvertently introducing the
potential for confusion exactly yeah and
and over explanation is something you
always have to watch out for a great
example of where I over explained is in
The Player’s Handbook so in the fighter
in action surge we give you an action
with that feature that’s all that
feature does it gives you an extra
action now talking with the team I was
concerned as were other members on the
team that because bonus actions and
reactions and how they work in fifth
edition was going to be new for a lot of
people we put a little bit of reminder
text in action search the hey in
addition to this extra action given to
you by action surge you still also might
have a bonus action and whatever else it
is you’re doing on your
that is that is helpful text put that in
air quotes because it is ultimately not
helpful and we almost always end up
regretting it when we put in helper text
like that because it seems at the time
like oh this will clarify something but
then it’s too easy for people to miss
read it and sure enough many people to
this day will read acts in search and
they wonder it’s accident surge also
giving me an additional bonus action
which it certainly is not but I often
like by the way to point out my own
mistakes because a big part of being
able to do this kind of work and do it
well is being humble about your own work
and being able to assess where you’ve
taken a misstep so that you can learn to
do better I was gonna say believe it or
not there’s another brand that works in
this building and for magic as well I
know that’s a big discussion what text
you’re printing on the face of a card
are using just the key word are you
elaborating on what the key word is or
does that again does that potentially
cause confusion yeah and it can refer to
that keyboard a key word elsewhere and
the rules are online and how it plays
into this particular card yeah so so
almost always just to sort of give you
the the principle almost always watch
out for helper text unless you can
provide enough context for why you’re
providing it and and also to make it
clear it’s just helper text and not
actually a new rule proceed with caution
anytime you put in that kind of thing so
this even here this in the original
drafts saying melee or ranged weapon
attack that’s actually an example of
unhelpful helper text it’s just a weapon
attack so here’s another thing that
voice of authority had that was a red
flag for me it says that the ally gets
to make this attack against a target of
your choice now you might read this
quickly and think well what’s wrong with
that
so as written uh I’m just laughing that
Justin Tegan yes it is like kids helping
yes it is like the kids trying to help
at home so
this this text it works sure you can
choose somebody for your friend to
attack when you use voice of authority
but here’s the issue what if everyone
else in this encounter is invisible so
one of the things we often have to put
in into our rules when we refine them is
talk about a target that you can see and
so that’s why in the new version it says
you get the the attack is made against a
target of your choice that you can see
because it easy to forget that there is
actually no general rule in the game
that states you must see somebody that
you target with an ability so it’s then
that puts the pressure on each feature
where site matters for that feature to
actually say hey you’ve got to see the
person you’re targeting with this unless
that’s not the intent if if an ability
involves an attack role you almost never
need to say a target you can see because
our attack rules already tell you what
to do if you can’t see your target you
have disadvantage on the attack role and
you might just even be just guessing
where they are but when it comes to
saving throw effects
we’re effects like this where you’re
basically just saying hey you something
happens to you it can be important to
specify hey you need to see this person
or hear this person you know that sort
of thing something happens to is the
best name for a spell or effect that’s
right you know yeah so so you’ll see
that not only did the new version change
a single melee or ranged weapon attack
to one weapon attack and then it also
said it has to be a person you can see
all right there’s also a much subtler
change that happened here I won’t dwell
on this too long but it the original
said once during your turn when you
target an ally with a spell of first
level or higher then your ally gets to
do
you know they get to take their reaction
to make an attack okay reactions the
general rule is they occur after their
trigger has happened mm-hmm so
technically in the original version the
trigger for this reaction was being
targeted by a spell which is oddly
specific and and I’ll say this too
specific because what that technically
means is you would target them they
would get to take their reaction then
your spell would resolve which could
result in some really wacky rules
interactions which were not intended by
this design so in the in the new version
I changed it to immediately after you
cast a spell on an ally than they get to
take that reaction what that insures is
the spell resolves it kind of tidies up
after itself and then they can take
their reaction so you can now see here
just looking at one sentence there were
basically three rules pitfalls so really
digging in can be a lot of work to tease
out all of these things sure no but
again but it looks you take one detail
but it does have broader design
implications be very concise with your
wording keep in mind that the mechanical
triggers and reactions and and just keep
it the languages as clean and
straightforward as possible yeah yeah
all right so we go into orders demand we
can let’s do it all right
so at the second level hey we love it up
everyone and we’re part we’re part way
through we’re partway through our second
session and everyone head level – okay
so orders demand is the domains channel
divinity option and the original design
really was seeking to emulate the sleep
spell in the players handbook by rolling
a bunch of dice and then you affect a
certain number of hit points worth of
creatures and
they are subjected to the effects of the
command spell mm-hmm all right when I
got to this this rang several alarm
bells for me first off the command spell
already gives you the ability when you
use higher level slots to cast it to
cast it on other people so I am I am
rarely open to allowing design new
design into the game that bulldoze is
over well-established design that’s
already there unless there’s a powerful
story reason to do it and so I felt okay
already that’s a knock against this
feature because we already have the
ability to cast command on multiple
people and frankly the version in the
players handbook is more straightforward
mm-hmm
the other thing that that set off an
alarm bell is the fact that actually
this is using the sleep spells tech and
I say this is a lar an alarm bell you
saw again I’ll always in these sessions
I’ll try to let you guys see behind the
curtain a little bit the sleep spell in
some ways is deprecated design for the
design team this is I I tell people who
work on the game if they’re designing
spells that do not emulate the sleep
spell because we only have it in that
form to be totally Frank because that’s
that is how it has functioned on and off
in the past right it was an experiment
for us it works for the sleep spell it
has a uniqueness and it is not something
I actually want to see proliferated
first off because it keeps the sleep
spell feeling distinct and the sleep
spell is iconic for the game it has been
an iconic wizard spell in particular
going back to first edition it is it’s a
really special spell in that way but I
also though don’t want to see it
replicated because I don’t want that
uniqueness to go away but it’s also
complex and it is a complexity I don’t
want to see proliferating because quite
honestly just making targets make saving
throws is way simpler the sleep spell is
also its tech is dangerous to use too
often and we knew this when we designed
it it bypasses are saving throw
mechanics and are saving throw mechanics
are in the game as a safeguard not only
to protect player characters from being
endlessly wrecked but also to keep
certain NPCs and monsters from being
endlessly wrecked by different effects
sure
and even though orders demand did
correctly say that a creature immune to
being charmed was immune to this effect
it still as designed could easily have
routed around – – – well the defenses of
creatures that in our design of like
which saving throw bonuses we’ve give
them etc they were meant to be able to
largely resist this kind of effect so I
looked at this I said this is an
interesting idea which is Hammond use a
technical term now which is to
booga-booga a big group that’s that’s
often my term for just you know random
magic stuff hand waving something
happens along with this theme of
compulsion of mind control of imposing
order because as I discussed last time
that’s really the story of this subclass
and so I looked at this and thought how
can I maintain this story of this
feature and of the subclass but in a
with a simpler design that doesn’t
trample over the command spell and so so
what I did is now in the new version
have you presenting your holy symbol as
is typical for a channel divinity and
each creature of your choice that can
see or hear you within 30 feet of you
must succeed on a saving wisdom saving
throw or be charmed by you until the end
of your next turn or until the charms
creature takes any damage you can also
cause any of the charmed creatures to
fall prone when they fail the saving
throw my intent here is as in the
original design to make this ability
useful both in and out of combat so your
you can imagine in combat the the
order domain cleric basically telling
everybody quit it when by charming them
they’re not going to be able to attack
the cleric and if the cleric is feeling
like a been a Jesuit from Doon I can say
you know using the voice submit and
everyone can can fall prone but I also
wanted again this cleric to be able to
do that in a non-combat scene to have
you know to calm a crowd this also by
the way is a way for the cleric to just
wander out of an area essentially
getting the effects of the disengage
action because these people who are
charmed are not gonna be able to attack
the cleric and so you this cleric could
be surrounded use orders demand and then
just stroll on out now I don’t know if
those of you listening notice that this
new version that I wrote could also use
a little bit of refinement because I
just talked about Ian’s voice of
authority the issue of choosing people
you can’t see and right here look what I
did I said the cleric gets to choose
people and I didn’t say the cleric has
to see them so bad Jeremy so we will
we’ll get that on our on our next loop
through because we did say you can say
or that can see or hear you yes because
because part of my yeah I made sure that
I wanted your targets to be able to see
you or hear you when you are radiating
out this commanding magic but neglected
to include that you have to see them if
you’re the one choosing them yes now I
can tell you actually how this goof
occurred in my own design it’s because
that little bit of you making a choice
didn’t originally exist in my design my
in what I redesigned this I made it so
that it worked on everybody who could
see or hear you including your friends
mm-hmm so in that case you didn’t need
to be able to see or hear anybody it was
actually at the last minute before I
handed this over to you I suddenly
thought well the cleric will want to be
able to exclude their friends so I
quickly added in your choice but forgot
to put in when I was working too
quickly that the cleric needs to see the
people that the cleric is excluding from
this effect well as it’s being discussed
in chat there is sort of that story
element of you’ve got your dad voice or
your mom voice they might not see where
the kids are hiding but it’s like come
on out right now and get in the car we
got to go and that’s still sort of the
command is in effect to them even though
you can’t see where they are right they
can hear you I’m noticing in chat people
asking well what’s the issue of picking
somebody you can’t see well the issue
and by the way it could be also a person
it doesn’t have to be a person you could
see it could also be a person you can
hear the point is we don’t want rules
that create the basically the the logic
problem of choose the person you don’t
know is there we basically need some way
to say choose people who you’re actually
know they’re there and that can be
because you see them you hear them there
are a variety of ways that we could
implement this in the rules the point is
you need to be clear how is it you’re
choosing people because if you’re not
aware they’re there and and so so it’s a
bit of fair play it sounds like it’s a
player I know the person’s there and my
character doesn’t and so I have to make
sure that my character is acting in a
reasonable manner according to the right
and we don’t want to turn every spell
into a mind-numbing negotiation between
the player and the DM and that’s why we
like the clarity of you have to pick
somebody you can hear it someone you can
see that kind of thing so it’s so that
again it’s every time you use this it’s
not alright now let’s negotiate they’re
not deal and I know they’re there right
Wow so again kind of looking at this
rule that some of the lessons that sound
like be careful in redundancy and
language and be careful making use of
some of the I don’t know the platypuses
of the game the the unique technic annex
of the game
I was curious you had mentioned sleep
were there any other sort of unique tech
features of the game that you would
people might not know but there are
actual physical alarm bells and Jeremy’s
like go off when
somebody starts designing these are
these but uh I’ve got none are coming
immediately to mine
probably in five minutes after so there
are these five but the sleep spell is a
biggie right that’s one often if it’s
design gets emulated I’d like again I’m
seeing all sorts of suggestions in chat
yes there are all sorts of ways that you
could write targeting somebody you can
perceive who’s you know whose location
you know who you can see who you can
hear the point is whatever route you go
in make it simple make it
straightforward don’t turn it into a
negotiation or an argument and make it
so that everyone at the table at the
game table can understand pretty darn
quickly who is it I can target because
targeting is just the first part of most
magic effects you don’t want you don’t
want the game to bog down before you’ve
even got to what the thing actually does
because there’s just trying to decide
who you can target because again so
often what we’re getting at in our
design is getting to the story getting
to the fun getting to the crazy way the
DM is going to describe what just
happened that’s those are the moments we
want to get to and again not we’re gonna
spend the next 10 minutes negotiating
about targets so that was orders
judgment anything further to add there
do you want to move on yeah strike hey
we’re gonna we’re gonna be crazy and get
another feature all right
orders judgment so no not divine strike
we’ll go – oh sorry orders a judgement
yes it’s confusing because orders I fell
into that exact trap I went too far
ahead because they’re not aligned
correctly I’m like my sheets of paper
alright so you’ll see in the original
there was a second channel divinity hmm
called orders judgment all right this
right away ring an alarm bell because
normally I do not like our most of our
cleric domains to have more than one
channel divinity why here’s why clerics
do not get that many uses of channel
divinity they already all have turn
Undead
I typically only allow domains to have
more than one channel divinity if they
have obvious uses in different contexts
in the game if they are both combat
relevant I am most likely going to cut
one of them because essentially you’re
giving your you have taken up two of the
clerics feature slots with two things
that are constantly competing with each
other mm-hm and the issue with orders
demand an orders judgment is there were
both combat relevant and the second one
was offering a juicy damage bonus and
many people as soon as they’re gonna get
a damage bonus are gonna say goodbye to
the thing that doesn’t give them a
damage bonus which in this case would
mean they would stop using the ability
that was really iconic for this for this
domain yeah which is radiating you know
this this domineering presence to impose
order also this was too much of an echo
of what’s up ahead at seventeenth level
in orders wrath where you are giving
everyone extra damage and so to me it
was also hitting the same design note
too much the domain is not a very large
piece of design so to be hitting the
same note twice in such a small piece of
design I generally try to avoid although
again always exceptions can be made if
they are interesting enough okay so
orders judgment immediately went on the
chopping block exactly not only not only
did I cut the design but also made it so
that it was the replacement wasn’t even
a channel divinity I wanted something
that was going to help this cleric dig
in even deeper to their story archetype
and so to pull that off what I did is
inspired by work we did in the diviner
in the wizard I put together the orders
Dominion feature which makes it very
easy for this domain to happily cast
enchantment spells
and that includes not only spells like
command where you’re ordering other
people to do things but also includes
some beneficial spells for the clerics
allies including you know spell like
heroism which is I mentioned last time
on this clerics domain list and there
are others as well and I also wanted
this cleric to not hold back using that
magic clerics have frankly a lot of
pressure placed on their spell slots
because many a many clerk players like
to be healers many groups expect the
cleric to to heal that’s what I would
assume clerics certainly don’t have to
heal I mean no one is forced to play
their character in any particular way
but again many people who come to the
cleric class do so because they do like
healing and so there is there’s that
pressure on the cleric spell slots also
as I’ve already mentioned damage is
always enticing and clerics occasionally
will want to use their spell slots to
cast damaging spells I didn’t for this
domain didn’t want though those
pressures to get in the way of still
using these enchantment abilities that
impose order so thus we got this feature
which allows you every time you spend a
spell slaughter second level or higher
to cast an enchantment spell to then
regain one of your expended spell slots
and the spell slot you regain is always
of a level lower than the spell you cast
and it can’t be higher than Fitz level
so it functions like the diviners
ability in the wizard players in the
play tests will let us know if they like
this I think it’s a fun way to kind of
liberate this domain to use those sake
enchantment spells and we’ll find out if
players think the same yes so I guess
that’s a good point we are always
actively actively so
the feedback on the unearthing of
material we put up the surveys a couple
of weeks after the article goes up so
you’ve had time to play it solicit
feedback in that case we work with D&D
beyond these days as well to publish I
suppose republish the the unearth or can
of material so that you can use that in
in your games as well with a dandy
beyond tools so yes please do try out
the material and please do give us your
feedback that’s that’s how we know if
it’s working for you the new tales are
not so mm-hmm
we’ve got a few minutes left do we have
a time to jump into divine strike should
we save it for next time Lion strike we
can jump into because it’s super easy
like I mentioned last time let’s do that
divine strike is really just an
infrastructure piece of of a cleric
domain every cleric domain either has
divine strike or potent spell casting in
many ways it’s kind of you shouldn’t
even think of it as a domain ability
it’s just basically every domain has one
of the other in that slot and then the
what is special is what damage type we
pick and for the order domain we have
force although quite honestly it very
easily could have been psychic and I
expect playtesters will let us know what
they think but if if I were redesigning
this today given my mood today
because we talked about psionics I would
change it to psychic and and honestly
there are bits of design that are
subjective like that there isn’t that’s
the mood chart on the wall what’s
damaged title is everything design yes
mm-hmm
that’s right is Jeremy in a psychic mood
today I mean I’ve had that it’s funny
there was a date recently where I was
for some reason and a radiant damage
mood and so all sorts of things I was
designing ended up with radiant damage
that I rained it is the next day so we
can talk about orders wrath next time
let’s see is there one maybe one
question from the chat I could answer
before yes I’m sorry I was completely
negligent in terms of the questions this
time we were going
we were slicing our way through the
order domain if you do have any
questions we will collect those for next
time but if anyone would like to to
throw up any quick questions for Jeremy
about the order domain or about design
work in general please feel free to do
so as those come in I’ll just make a
quick mention that we do have Dean dnews
coming up at 3:30
Greg Tito is out of town but Nathan
Stewart will be manning the chair and he
is the king of spoiler yes although it’s
mentioned at the top of the hour we’ve
got stream of many eyes information is
up on the website now so he’ll be glad
to talk further about that we look
forward to everyone who is able to make
it to Los Angeles in person we have
tickets available for that final day on
June 3rd otherwise we’ll be streaming
all three days June 1st through 3rd so
please do turn in tune in and so Dean
dnews at 3:30 and the new season of dice
camera action with dungeon master Chris
Perkins will be coming up at 4 p.m.
Pacific today so we’ve got quite a few
questions coming in now
[Applause]
we’ve got why just healing get spread
around other classes well we could
answer that one that one’s kind of easy
ok
so because this is this is really about
one spell basically why did Rangers and
druids get the healing spirit spell
because in XANA thar’s guide to
everything it is a very good spell meant
to be a very good spell to help beef up
druids and rangers as healers especially
the ones who want to be healers but as
i’ve as I’ve noted on Twitter we
published the spell without a use limit
on the spell used in combat the spell
really has no problem and is meeting our
mathematical expectations it’s when the
spell is used out of
that because of people’s ability to jump
in and out of the spirit that spell then
goes from hey it’s kind of a neat you
know effect there’s the spirit hovering
there and you can run over and get
healed by it turns it from that to many
groups feeling like oh my god we have to
have the spell because we can get so
much healing out of combat so I as I’ve
said publicly I’ve had my I’ve had my
eye on that spell since the book came
out I’ve been seeing the feedback and it
is highly likely that the spell will get
adjusted in a future printing I have
already on Twitter indicated how we are
likely to adjust it and that is limiting
the number of times the spell can heal
based on the spell casters spell casting
ability modifier most likely times two
so that would mean you cast it and let’s
say you have a wisdom modifier of plus
two then the Spirit would heal four
times and then if you are all the way up
at a twenty wisdom it would mean that
means you have a modifier of plus five
and the spell would be able to heal
people ten times which frankly sorry
should have drunk more water thankfully
that would actually cap the spell around
sort of the maximum healing that we
expect for it all right
uh well again thank you for for the
questions we’ll address a few more of
them next time we’re here past three so
we’ll call this a show but I would like
to say again thank you for returning to
the dragon plus Elijah my pleasure
we as mentioned we we like picking
Jeremy’s brains so we will have him back
quite periodically and that works with
your schedule yes how much time for it
just make the uncomfortable invite on
air for yes I’m
well also I realized I can I can justify
being here which I love by I can start
making it so all of our writers and
designers have to watch these videos so
because for those of you watching I hold
sessions sort of like what we’re doing
now I hold them with our our designers
our writers our editors to help them do
better and better work for all of you
and so that’s often if you if you
haven’t seen me in public for a while
it’s because either I’m I’m designing
material for their next book or I’m busy
teaching everyone how to design material
so again if I can just say watch these
videos then I can appear more often
there you go so yes so we’ll have we’ll
have Jeremy probably back in two weeks
next week we’re going to be talking to
Kate Irwin looking at some of the art
design and concept in that went into
mourning canons DOMA foes so look look
forward to us and then I’ll wrap this up
really quickly so that we can change out
the scent pelham can change out the set
for for D&E news again as always thank
you so much to everyone who takes the
time to tune in we appreciate it very
much and special thanks to our followers
and subscribers of course as always
stream of many eyes we will talk about
that more at 3:30 and the new season of
dice camera action at 4:00 and yes as
mentioned earlier in the chat we will
work on getting a new emote for pelham
thanks everyone we’ll see you next week
bye everyone
[Laughter]
Thanks, everyone, who joined us for today's discussion on D&D rules design! In two weeks, we'll wrap up our exploration of the Order Domain and then dive into new topics. #DnD https://t.co/RP1xsGCPJD

— Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford) May 1, 2018