Does Nondetection plus Invisibility beat True Seeing?

7 thoughts on “Does Nondetection plus Invisibility beat True Seeing?

  1. This likely hasty answer is sadly incorrect when time is put towards reading the wording or considering the implications. Greater Invisibility and non-detection would beat many GODS that didn’t have true-seeing inherently or some form of
    AoE to wipe the map, as many melee based Gods, not to mention giants and others, do not. This was a well known exploit in 2e and something Mike Mearls fixed in 5e.

    True-Seeing does not “target” the invisible creature and therefore by wording does not get stopped by non-detection. True-seeing targets a creature (not the invisible one) that gains an ability which allows them to see invisible creatures. Seeing a creature is not the same as targeting it!

    Interestingly, Non-detection does prevent a creature from being buffed by True-seeing.

  2. Erwin says:

    This is why you don’t listen to Jeremy Crawford. He is all over the place with his rulings. Use his tweets as guidance, but the DM is God at his table.

    I tend to agree with Mark’s take on how True Seeing works

  3. The Amulet states

    You are hidden from Divination magic. You can’t be targeted by such magic or perceived through magical Scrying sensors.

    The spell states

    For the duration, you hide a target that you touch from divination magic. The target can be a willing creature or a place or an object no larger than 10 feet in any dimension. The target can’t be targeted by any divination magic or perceived through magical scrying sensors.

    Notice the period after magic in both instances. You are hidden from Divination magic. That is separate, and then a new sentence. You can’t be targeted by such magic or be perceived through magical scrying sensors.

    You are Hidden from Divination magic. That is the very first sentence and it answers it 100% If it is Divination magic then it does not matter if it targets you or not. The second sentence is just to add more and clarify something else. Also true seeing basically turns your eyes into magical sensors so again, it would not work IMO.

    • James says:

      The spell does not “turn your eyes into magical sensors.” It grants truesight, which has its own rules — and those rules include seeing invisible creatures. Nondetection has no bearing on a creature’s truesight, temporary or not. Jeremy’s just plain wrong on this one.

  4. James says:

    I can understand not wanting a 3rd level spell to completely block a 6th level spell … but if true seeing doesn’t get blocked by nondetection because “it’s a divination spell that targets you not the invisible person” … then 2nd level see invisibility is also not affected by nondetection for the same reason.

    I can see the balance issues on both sides. If it were my table, I would rule that nondetection will block you from being seen by divination spells (no matter who is targeted by the spell) so long as the nondetection spell was cast at a spell level equal to or more than the divination spell being cast. That way you aren’t hiding from any gods, and while you could hide from a true seeing spell, you’d also have to sacrifice a 6th level spell or better to do so.

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