Are you the right person to ask about monster design? I’m finding that at mid CRs, the average damage of just about every MM monster is below the value in the DMG table for building monsters. The DMG table helps you find a monster's CR based on a balance of defensive and offensive capabilities. You're not meant to jump to a row in the table and find that all monsters of a certain CR deal the same average damage.
— Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford) March 7, 2018
Barlgura: 29.
Out of curiosity, can you give me a specific example, Teos?Bulette: 30.
Earth Elemental: 28.
Flesh Golem: 26!
Giant Crocodile: 35! Actually in range!
Giant Shark: 22.
Etc.— Alphastream (@Alphastream) March 7, 2018
Looks like you’re missing things like higher attack bonus than expected (earth elemental’s +8 vs expected +5 for the CR 4 its 28 damage hits pushes it up to 5), or possibly higher defensive CR. Part of it is general survivability. A creature with unusual movement (bulette, shark) and environmental advantage can survive longer, as can a demon or golem (lots of immunities and successful saves). The giant crocogator there is the one most likely to go toe to toe.
— Chris Sims (@ChrisSSims) March 7, 2018
Most of those I can get behind, and a couple of them just straight up work out on the numbers.
That bar’lgura has me scratching my head. Maybe accounting for entangling people, or something? 68 hp with a couple not-weapon resistances and AC 15 doesn’t get there. Rounded up? Official monsters have many of the conditions they impose translated into virtual damage. Restraining someone, for example? That's virtual damage, which we capture in our internal CR calculator.
— Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford) March 7, 2018
I'd have to see your assumptions to know for sure about what you're coming up with. When I account for the barlgura recklessly attacking constantly (or maybe getting advantage from starting invisible), I'm pretty sure it's right at CR 5. Doesn't make me right. 😉
— Chris Sims (@ChrisSSims) March 7, 2018
Going by the chart in the DMG Invisibility as an action (spell in this case) and Reckless don’t add to CR, they’re a wash.
I’m just going by hp, x1.5 for 3 resistances (though I think that might be generous), and AC 15.
No other relevant traits besides possibly spells. I've wondered if they were supposed to have the old "grab and teleport" abduction trick they used to, but none of those components made it to their 5e kit.
— Dan Dillon (@Dan_Dillon_1) March 7, 2018
Though if you account for the effective hp from resistances I’m getting def 4/off 5, average of 4.5.
Could simply have been a round up for some reason. Sorry interrupted by seeing Thor Ragnarok for the first time. Yes, by “accounting” I was referring to the voodoo of the rounding choice. Barlgura could definitely be a bit tougher and still be 5 though.
— Chris Sims (@ChrisSSims) March 7, 2018
That voodoo is eyeing the package outside the numbers and making a call I suppose. I tend to be conservative in players’ favor. That said, I didn’t assign any CRs in the game, merely consulted.
— Chris Sims (@ChrisSSims) March 7, 2018
The whole encounter balance / CR thing has been an obsession of mine since 5e came out and I’ve had lots of thoughts about it. Most recently is to use CR to see if an encounter is unintendedly deadly and that’s it. Otherwise, it’s the monsters that make sense for the scene. Legit approaches. I wish I could find the tweet, but a wise game-designer lady once said (paraphrasing) encounter design is about making the enemy lose convincingly. I agree with that philosophy.
— Chris Sims (@ChrisSSims) March 7, 2018
I also have a philosophy about encounters, especially easy ones, as world-building and narrative pacing tools rather than purely gamist challenges.
— Chris Sims (@ChrisSSims) March 7, 2018
Players love blowing stuff away, so “too easy” isn’t a problem if it’s engaging. Yeah, I feel better about the game if something is unexpectedly easy than if something is unexpectedly too hard.
— Chris Sims (@ChrisSSims) March 7, 2018
Can you give examples of encounters for world building? Go into the Troll Wood (my old standby); don't cry if you get eaten by trolls. Three goblins playing dice instead of watching the door, so they're easy to surprise. Two town guards on night shift at the town gaol, rather than the badass bounty hunters who captured you. And etc.
— Chris Sims (@ChrisSSims) March 7, 2018
